Suicided to bottom with SK-Normal

  • Hi, I have a raid record with 3 items awarded to 3 different players. All are listed as attending the raid, and all are main characters. This is under SK-Normal lootsystem.


    The first 2 characters are suicided properly under the other raid members, in the order in which they received items.


    The 3rd character is suicided to the very bottom of the entire list, and I cannot figure out why. Updating to the latest .27 release does not fix it.

  • The raid members change the position. If one of your attendees was before on the bottom, one of the item buyers will be at the bottom after the raid.

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    GodMod


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  • According to the description of point systems, that is the behavior for SK-Fixed but we are using SK-Normal.

  • Suicide Kings = Suicide victim drops behind last raid attendee


    If one of raid attendees is on the last place, then one the looter will take his place.


    You can delete the latest raid, check the positions, and then recreate the raid and check positions again.

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  • Okay. State of the list before the raid on January 26, 2020 (ListState0.png) - Lowest character on the list is in the raid (new player).


    When I add the first item (ListState1.png), the first suicide victim (Clovers) drops to the bottom of the entire list under that player (expected). However, that bottom character then jumps up the list by three whole places, to the place directly under the next lowest player who is present in the raid (not expected). Other players in the list also move up the list at this time above players who are not present.


    When I add a second item (ListState2.png), the second suicide victim drops to the bottom of the entire list. Other players move as described above.


    When I add a third item (ListState3.png) the result is the same.


    If the intent is for all players to move up above all nearby out-of-raid players when any player suicides, this is in fact what's happening and it is working as intended.


    However, the confusion arises when the last player to suicide is still under three players who were not present in the raid, because the suicide caused other players in the raid to move up above all nearby players who were not in the raid. Does that make sense?


    We were expecting only the suicided player to move on the list, not for the entire list to reshuffle on each suicide.

  • If the intent is for all players to move up above all nearby out-of-raid players when any player suicides, this is in fact what's happening and it is working as intended.

    This is intended. The SK normal module is written in a way that the raid attendees will switch positions, and the buyer exchanges with the latest attendee. Therefore working as intended.


    However, the confusion arises when the last player to suicide is still under three players who were not present in the raid, because the suicide caused other players in the raid to move up above all nearby players who were not in the raid. Does that make sense?

    It does not really make sense to give items when the buyer has not taken part at the raid. Therefore the module adds the buyer to the attendees for the calculation. Because where should this member fall? If he has not taken part at the raid, he must fall behind all other to be fair, or not?

    We were expecting only the suicided player to move on the list, not for the entire list to reshuffle on each suicide.

    But that's not the way the module was written.

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    GodMod


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  • All buyers were already marked as attendees.


    We don't have a problem with the 'condensing' of the entire list each time a purchase is made.


    The inconsistency which drew our attention is shown in ListState3 where the last buyer, Regnanetah is under players who were not in the raid. Is this intended? Vinnig was the previous buyer and we'd expect Regnanetah to appear next in the list when suiciding next.


    Thanks for your attention to this.

  • Post by GodMod ().

    This post was deleted by the author themselves ().
  • I think it works as intended:


    • Krulerg is last, behind Kromgal which is no attendee
    • Clovers has now position of Krulerg, behind Ruljan, which is not attendee (he has switched with Kromgal, don't know why)
    • Vinnig has now position of Covers (who moved up), is behind Kromgal, which is no attendee and has his position back
    • Regnaneta has now position of Vinning (who moved up), is still behind Kromgal, which is no attendee

    Therefore the module does what it is written for: the buyer always get's the latest position of attendees and all others move up.

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    GodMod


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  • Okay, if this is working as intended I hesitate to suggest changes, however it seems the description is misleading or incomplete.


    For regular SK system ("SK-Normal") the entire description "Suicide victim drops behind last raid attendee." In fact, a suicide victim can drop behind characters who are not in raid, due to the mechanics discussed in this thread. Perhaps in a future update, these descriptions can be clarified - something like:


    "sk: Suizide Kings EQdkp-Plus layout. Suicide victim drops to position of last raid attendee. All other raid attendees move up the list above nearest set of adjacent characters who are not in the raid."


    Yes, it is more lengthy, but I feel the detail is important, as we have tried to explain to our people exactly how this works, without being able to account for some behavior. Thank you for your consideration to further improvements in this little-used system. We appreciate your work.

  • A description perhaps even more clear:


    Suicide victim goes to position of lowest raid attendee. All other attendees move up above non-present characters until they reach a point below a present attendee.

  • Buyer goes to position of lowest raid attendee. All other attendees move up and swap their place with present attendee.


    The problem is, that this sounds equally with the "fixed" SK layout and I don't know yet where the difference is between the layouts... As I said, I haven't written them...

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    GodMod


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  • With the "Fixed" layout, the intent seems to be that a suicide victim simply changes places with the lowest player who is in the raid. Only two players would therefore move.


    With the "sk" (normal) layout, all the players who are current attendees move up the list one by one, to directly under the next highest current attendee.


    Another side point: We discovered another strange behavior where if the top character in the list is not present in the raid, the second character in the list (if present attendee) will not move above the non-present character - presumably this is because there is no higher *and* present character to move under.

  • Also this is intended - as only raid attendees swap positions, the second one cannot go above the first one as the is no attendee.

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    GodMod


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  • I have here a SK module for you, that only makes one thing: drop the suicide victim behind the last raid attendee.


    https://gist.github.com/GodMod/2f294238843df7f11fa8849275f360ab


    You can replace the file core/data_handler/includes/modules/read/suicide_kings/pdh_r_suicide_kings.class.php with this file and you have to delete the EQdkp Plus Cache after that.


    Code
    1. 1. A
    2. 2. B
    3. 3. C
    4. 4. D
    5. 5. E

    So A, B, and D are raid attendees. A get's an item and therefore falls directly behind D.

    Code
    1. 2. B
    2. 3. C
    3. 4. D
    4. 1. A
    5. 5. E


    The numbers are just reordered:

    Code
    1. 1. B
    2. 2. C
    3. 3. D
    4. 4. A
    5. 5. E

    I don't know if the module works well with big installation, but that's something you can try ;)

    Viele Grüße,
    GodMod


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  • Thank you very much, and for all the other troubleshooting! We will try with that module since it matches what we've told our raid already, and I'll reply here when I've done so.